WCIC, should we help the ungodly?

A verse my pastor brought up during his sermon on Sabbath jumped out at me as being applicable to WCIC’s call for volunteers to staff School District 150’s registration this week.

The context is the return of Jeshoshaphat, king of Judah, from a battle in which he had joined with Ahab, king of Israel (2 Chronicles 18). Jehu, son of the prophet Hanani, confronts him:

But Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him and said to King Jehoshaphat, “Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the LORD? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the LORD. (2 Chronicles 19:2 ESV)

And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD. (2 Chronicles 19:2 KJV)

Should we love those who hate the Lord? Should we help the ungodly?

That’s hard to hear. It doesn’t sit well with our culture. Yet we are also told by Messiah that we should love our enemies and do good to those who persecute us. The question is, do we go looking for a way to help them achieve their purpose if their purpose is ungodly? I don’t think the Master was suggesting that we enable drug users to further their habit by buying drugs for them. Or burglars by serving as lookouts. Or government schools that undermine biblical values by helping make sure children are able to attend them.

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10 thoughts on “WCIC, should we help the ungodly?

  1. Your rhetoric and logic is disturbing, Mike. Because a gov’t institution won’t embrace your religion and its texts, it is therefore evil and “against the Lord” or “hates the Lord” or is wicked or ungodly. Oh, please.

    You ought to think of public schools more as “unaffiliated with” the Christian and Jewish God, not “against” it. Sure, there are administrators and school board members who “hate the Lord,” but they are working alongside many others who are believers and (gasp!) continue to work for the public school system (which you criticized in your earlier blast of WCIC). But you paint with too broad a brush when you label the whole system of public education as wicked, evil, and hating the Lord.

    Helping District 150 register kids may not be the best use of time by WCIC-FM volunteers, but to call it “helping the ungodly” goes too far.

  2. @ Mike
    Your post made me think of one of my favorite sermons. http://www.mlkonline.net/enemies.html It is Martin Luther King Jr’s sermon on what it really means to lover your enemies.

    As far as public schools go I’m sure there are some in them that oppose the Lord. But I think Mark is right when he points out there are many good people in them who love the Lord. Public schools if anything are an expression of the public who make them up. The last time I checked the government was for the people, by the people, and of the people. If we don’t like it, what have we done to change it? After all it belongs to us.

    I imagine there are many good Christians who choose to send their children to public schools and worry about their children being corrupted by a certain value set. But then at the same time I imagine the children from such families go a long way in sowing the Gospel among their classmates by the witness of the virtuous lives they live. I imagine as parents we all fear the same things for our children and work to make sure they emulate the values we hold. And I’m sure there are many ways to make this happen.

  3. Mike: I will post to your blog as well. It really takes my breath away that you equate crimes of drug dealing, burglary, etc., with sending children to public schools. God spoke to Israel in Exodus 23:9; Leviticus 19:33-34, and Deuteronomy 24:19 that they were to be kind to the alien in their land, and to “love the alien as themselves.” If they had not obeyed, then Ruth the Moabitess (idol worshipper) would not have been able to glean from Boaz’s field. Jesus showed kindness to sinners at a party (Matthew 9:10-13), a Canaanite woman, (Matt. 15:21-28); and a Samaritan woman (John 4). I am looking hard to the Word to find how sending children to public school is such a sin that we can’t help those who do not have the “revelation” that some Christians have. I really want to understand.

  4. It’s rather common and simple, just another case of the “godly” being ungodly. Vanity, my favorite sin.

  5. Mike, showing kindness and helping them in their sin are two different things. Yes, I’m sorry, but I do see turning your children over to the government for education and cultural brainwashing as sinful. It’s no different than the Israelites adopting the ways of the Canaanites. As I said in my earlier WCIC post, I’ve got no problem in performing outreach to the kids — but NOT the bureaucracy.

    Mark, feel free to read my earlier post on WCIC. I’m glad that it disturbs you.

  6. I choose not to support a system in which children (Christian ones, too) must sit quietly and be ‘evangelized’ by a statist secular system. The *values* being communicated are clearly that “what REALLY matters in life” is a bag of ideas that support a society of pacified, blank-faced collectivist actors under a centralized, controlling head. (Is George Orwell familiar to anyone?) I choose to seek the One True God, and not support the building of the Tower of Babel.

  7. You find this “disturbing”? It “takes your breath away” that he thinks this way?
    Take a good look at the secular schools and what they are doing to children. THAT is truly disturbing.
    If WCIC had asked for volunteers to picket the school registration, handing out info packets to parents to warn them of the dangers of the humanistic indoctrination their children will receive and pro-Christ steps they can take to try to mitigate that indoctrination (family discipleship and Bible study, for example) … THAT would be a Christian witness to the community.
    Where is WCIC organizing volunteers to attend school board meetings and demand changes to the system (of/by/for the people .. excuse me while I laugh .. but if that was true, then the board would be the right place for Christians to be active!).
    Where is WCIC in investigating and advocating for/against school board candidates each election based on their true profession and display of Christian faith?
    These various ideas seem like the kinds of things that would be legitimate Christian witness and involvement. Helping load the Jews into the railcars (sorry, couldn’t help the hyperbole) is NOT helping…

  8. @Mike,

    I’m not exactly sure where to start regarding your latest comment. But I will just start in one place and jump around as my mind pleases.

    Surely you must understand that sin is to be determined by God and His word. Not by what YOU see, but what God sees.

    Being a public high school graduate myself, I know what you’re fighting against here. And being a public high school graduate I know that what is Biblical and what is Worldly can be easily discerned by a Christian whose view of God is large.

    One of the only reasons I could see a person denouncing public schools because he does not put enough faith in His Lord to deliver his children from the false teachings they will encounter.

    Mike, if you live in a Christian bubble your entire life, if you raise your children in a Christian bubble, how will they ever grow to understand the beast they are up against? Shouldn’t they learn to discern between truth and false teaching? Or shall we spoon-feed our children God’s word, and shelter them from all that is evil?

    It is easy to hate the public schools and not advocate them in any way. But allowing your children to learn in a worldly environment is certainly not a sin. Maybe by your standards. But quite frankly, yours, or anyone’s “sin standards” are the last that I will ever take into consideration. The Lord’s sin standards are the only ones I acknowledge.

    And let’s make clear that the government is not the enemy of the Church: “Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”

    But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?”

    “Caesar’s,” they replied.
    Then he said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

    (Matthew 22:17-21)

    The Messiah respected the government despite the fact that they were killing Christians! The government is not the enemy of the church, Mike. If Jesus respected them and followed their laws as they KILLED Christians, surely we can understand that just because they don’t teach what we teach, it is not a sin to be Christlike and love others by helping them.

    @Louis Cypher: Ah pride, my absolute favorite sin.

    We are all bad people. We are bad people with a very, very good God. You must understand that the righteousness you think is yours, is actually His. He is a good, gracious God.

    @joe: Like commenting on this blog, fighting the government and their ungodly views is a fight you can participate in all of your life, and never truly win. In the process of trying to prove that Christianity is right, you will ultimately contradict yourself by not loving God, not loving others, but simply trying to be right, for your own ego.

    Do me a favor and read what Jesus says the greatest commandment is. I am still working on this one. When I learn how to love the Lord my God with all my heart, then I will start persecuting others and picketing school corporations.

  9. Chris,

    “Surely you must understand that sin is to be determined by God and His word. Not by what YOU see, but what God sees.”

    Yes, but we’re also called to point out when brothers and sisters are off the path. (Which, now that I think of it, is what you’re trying to do regarding me.) Peter rebuking Simon the Magician in Acts 8 is but one example. Should we remain quiet if we are convicted that a part of the church is acting improperly? Should we not call them to repentance? At any rate, this is another example of avoiding the actual issue at hand, which, to your credit, you do eventually address.

    “One of the only reasons I could see a person denouncing public schools because he does not put enough faith in His Lord to deliver his children from the false teachings they will encounter. … Mike, if you live in a Christian bubble your entire life, if you raise your children in a Christian bubble, how will they ever grow to understand the beast they are up against? Shouldn’t they learn to discern between truth and false teaching? Or shall we spoon-feed our children God’s word, and shelter them from all that is evil?”

    Are you actually suggesting that we throw our children into the fires of Molech so they will get toughened up? Should we toss them outside in the winter so they’ll get used to the cold? No, we SHOULD spoon-feed them Scripture!! We should raise them in a “bubble” that nurtures and protects them!! Why would any Christian parent want to do otherwise? The government system has them for, what, 30-36 hours a week. How long does it take to undo the damage done by those hours? If it ever can be? Peer pressure, temptations, false teaching. Would you send your young children to a mosque daily so they are able to argue against Islam better? They are impressionable and drink in the teaching and atmosphere they are in. Public school (and in many cases, Christian school) is not where they should be.

    I pay my taxes, because Caesar is due them. I will NOT PAY WITH MY CHILDREN. Caesar can NOT have them. God has given them to me and my wife as stewards of them to raise them in the counsel of God. We are to take care of them for HIS purposes. We are not to just assume that they won’t be damaged by attending public school. We avoid the damage to begin with by NOT sending them to public school.

    “The Messiah respected the government despite the fact that they were killing Christians! The government is not the enemy of the church, Mike. If Jesus respected them and followed their laws as they KILLED Christians, surely we can understand that just because they don’t teach what we teach, it is not a sin to be Christlike and love others by helping them.”

    What Bible are you reading? What Christians were the government killing during the time of Christ’s ministry on Earth? (First of all, there was no group of “Christians” at the time Jesus was on the Earth. They were all Jews and they weren’t persecuted until after His Ascension.) Did He “help” the government? How???? When? Did He help the Pharisees as He was condemning their hypocrisy? In the sense that He was correcting their wrong teaching, yes, He was helping them.

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